What happens when a Customer Success Gal marries a Sales guy? As Gal Gan-El, Head of Customer Success and Support at Testim, tells us: you find balance!

Masha

Let’s do a quick intro - what’s your role, your background?

Gal

At Testim, I'm the head of Customer Success and Support. I joined this team almost six months ago.

I'm based in sunny Miami, Florida now, but originally I’m from Israel. I moved to the US 16 years ago, relocated by a technology company. Prior to this team I was a Director of Professional Services and Customer Success in another company.

I'm not young, so I’ve had many, many other management roles - but mainly related to customer success, professional services and project management, including multi-million dollar projects with T-Mobile and telco companies all over the world. And actually I started my career in a team that invented SMS technology. I worked for that company for 15 years. And then my last one was, and this is the company that actually deployed voicemail SMS technology, billing technology and multimedia messaging - MMS - technology to every telco company in the world. So in my last role at that company, I was in charge of the deployment in Latin America and the Caribbean. So I had a very large group of engineers in every country in Latin America and the Caribbean, and we deployed the systems; nowadays, everything is cloud-based but in previous years it was like a cabinet we used to send, many physical cabinets that they actually assemble to the floor for earthquakes! Glad we’re not dealing with this anymore, but at the time it was very complex projects that involved hardware and software.

And then, as I mentioned, I recently joined Testim. I'm very happy with this transition.

Masha

Amazing, you’ve covered pretty much every role!

How big is your team at Testim now? How are you folks organized?

Gal

I have five Customer Success Managers under me, I have the support organization which has another nine people and professional services, which currently has only one person.

We are working remotely. We have two headquarters: one in Israel, one in San Francisco, I'm specifically located in Miami, and some of the team are in Israel. I have one person in India, one in Canada, and one in the US. The support team is in Israel, all of them, but the Customer Success team is spread out, based on the geo location, and where the majority of our customers are.

Customer Success is a standalone function at Testim; my point of view is that Customer Success should be separated from Sales. They need to position themselves to be very “clean”, and they should not deal with money, and not book the renewal -- they should work to get the renewal, but they are the advocates of the customers and they are not “talking money”. This is something that I really insist on: that they will not be part of the Sales organization, it's not healthy in my opinion, it's not the right thing to do.

Masha

We've heard from customer success folks that they love to feel like superheroes saving the day for their customers. If you could have a superpower related to customer success, what would it be?

Gal

I think it would be to force them to use the tools, because in many cases they purchase the tool, and they either don’t have the skill set, or the right people to do it, or they don't define the priority. So, sometimes they just buy the tool and they don't use it.

And one of the challenges that we have is churn so we see many customers that are churning because they never actually used the tool or the system and they don't know you know what they can get. So just to provide them the skill set and the option to use the tool, the way that they should use it. And, and then you know have the discussion with them if they are getting what they need from the door.

Something I keep saying is, Customer Success people tend to confuse the words “happiness” and “success”. I always say, I'm not in charge of the happiness of my customers! They can wake up and be happy, or sad, or frustrated, I don't care - I want them to be successful! And it's really, really hard to argue with the numbers - so as long as we show the numbers, they can be happy or sad, but again - I want them to be successful. So, when people ask me, “Are the customers happy?”, I say “I don't know if they're happy or not, I mean, I wish I could make people happy, but you know, I can’t control that!”

Masha

Okay, so your superpower would be adoption whispering.

Gal

Exactly, adoption whispering.

And I'm not in charge of the happiness of my customers, I'm in charge of their success.

Masha

What does customer success mean to you, and how do you know that it's “working”?

Gal

So I think the most important thing is to understand.

Well, first, it’s the relationship, but the relationship is not on a personal level - although, of course, that’s an advantage. But the relationship is to understand the organization. Understand who reports to whom, who is the manager, etc.

At the end of the day, people buy from people, so the tools and the products are very similar. So yes, price is a major factor here, but at the end of the day, everything is based on the kind of relationship.

So we need to understand the organization, and we need to understand that every customer - and I mean every customer: the manager, the practitioner, the middle manager, the decision maker, the economic buyer - they have their goals, their targets, their personal goals and we need to understand that as customer success managers. It’s not necessarily true that the practitioners are aware of the goals of the decision maker, so when they're coming to work, they need to do X, Y, Z, and they go home. The managers have a bigger vision: they want to lead the organization to a specific place.

And Customer Success needs to understand all these aspects: what all of these stakeholders’ goals and needs are, in order to create a kind of success plan, something that translates these goals and targets into technical steps to achieve these goals, and that is really, really important.

Masha

What's the best way in your mind to set up customer success for success in an organization? What is the worst?

Gal

The Sales and Customer Success relationship is something that is very delicate, something that we need to find the right balance.

It's funny, because my husband and I used to work for the same company. He was in charge of all the Sales in Latin America and I was in charge of the Delivery. We used to sit in the same room and I was like, “What the hell, you sold them something that we don't have?!”, and he used to turn around and say “I don’t care, I sold it, you need to deliver!”

Masha

I’m afraid to ask: are you still married?

Gal

[laughs] Yeah, we are still married.

Look, I understand that the Sales people, at the end of the day, pay the salaries of the employees. But they are the ones that are closing the deal, and then, they kind of disappear! They're not really staying (unless they are farmers and these accounts are big) - they’re not really staying to help the customers be successful.

Sales folks need to be there because they have the relationship with the people that we need to continue the relationship with, but sometimes they don't give Customer Success the access because they don't believe we are qualified enough to have these kinds of discussions. I see it in many organizations, and I don't agree with it.

So we need to keep this balance, and we need to be able to work together, and this is the most important thing, and a major challenge internally that we have.

On the other hand, in order to be successful, Customer Success needs to understand and have this relationship with the right people. At the end of the day, customers don't really care if you have this amazing feature. The only thing that they care about is if they can use the tool, the way that will help them do what they want. So sometimes we don't listen to what customers need or what they really want, or the pain points that they will need to address. We are so busy chasing competitors and launching these crazy features that no one will use, while at the end of the day, people just want to come to work, do their job, and be successful with what they are doing. So it's funny, but it’s like being a parent to your customers: really listen to what they want, what they need, and try to address their needs - and from the other hand, be very “tough love”, you know, “You're not using the product, why? I want you to use the product, do you need help using the product? I will schedule the session with our expert.” So it’s a bit like being a parent, and nudging the customer to where you want them to be.

And they really appreciate the transparency, the fact is they come to know that you are their advocate, and if you have to say “no”, that you did everything that you could do in order to get it for them, that it’s a real “no”. And if you say “yes” they also know that you did everything that you could do in your power to get it for them. I think that this is the secret for success.

Masha

How have you seen the Customer Success role evolve over the last couple of years?

Gal

It started as a project manager: you know, with the Gantt charts, and tracking milestones. ROI wasn’t something that Customer Success used to deal with! There was a budget, there were milestones, there was “on time, on budget”. And now, we really want our customers to be successful. We really want to solve their problem. In the past I don't think we really cared - at least in my case, maybe it’s related to my previous company: each telco company wanted to have our technology, so we didn’t really solve a problem, we just sold them, deployed, and there you had it.

Right now, I think that with all these products that are there in the market we're trying to solve a problem. We really want customers to be successful in solving this problem and provide the right solution.

I think that we need to reflect the ROI in a way that they will renew because right now I think that the SaaS and the subscription model is the one that most companies are using, and we definitely want the renewal. I do think that we have a better understanding of why customers are not successful, and why customers are not renewing.

The evolution of the role is mainly because we now are trying to solve a problem, and we want our product to be successful.

Also, better understanding of organizations, and all the changes within: the market is very dynamic, so we need to be very flexible, continue reselling the product internally. People are changing positions, and even if you are already in this organization, you need to continue and re-sell yourself.

Cross-sell is also something that I don’t think happened in the past: the ability to penetrate the organization and see who else you can sell the product to. 

A project manager used to manage a project plan; right now, it's a much bigger role, a very powerful one.

And then we definitely try to look at all the aspects of a success: success at the personal level, organizational, and also our internal success to retain our customers.

Masha

How do you see the role of Customer Success evolving further in the next five years?

Gal

I think that, from what I can see, most of this generation, people are currently less “hard workers”: they really care about life-work balance. And it will align: the customer would be the same.

In my company I don't see the differences, because I have a really great team. But this coming generation, I think that people will lose the personal touch, that real caring about their customers. It will be more methodical and technical, maybe less feeling involved, maybe they will care less. They will do the right things, but it will be very much a process that they will follow.

Maybe companies would prefer younger people with less experience that would follow specific processes, but will lack the personal touch. And this would be complete disaster!

Masha

You sound a bit sad about this…

Gal

I am sad! I told you, at the end of the day, Customer Success is to really care about the success of the customers. It’s not just a process that you follow, and you need a lot of experience to deal with different types of customers with different crises to make sure that you provide them the right answer... that you understand that you need to do everything for them! And I think that people tend to look now at workplaces as a place where you go, spend nine hours, go back home, and that's it.

Masha

I feel terrible about this! I'm kind of hoping that technology can enable humanity to come back but maybe I'm being too optimistic…

Gal

It will happen! it will happen, but not soon. It will take us time. I wish! I see the trend of young people giving up on their smartphones and disconnecting from social media. But we’re not there yet.

Masha

What is the most controversial opinion that you hold about customer success that you wish other companies or other practitioners would just hurry up and catch up to already?

Gal

That you don't need to be nice to your customers. I mean, don't “please” them! No, really, many Customer Success folks are trying too hard to be lovable. But, customers are not stupid! I see Customer Success joining on calls, like “Heeeeey, how are you?” and talking for 15 minutes out of the 30 minutes about the weather, or other things that are not important, and at the end of the day they're not solving any problems for the customer. So don't try to be lovable! Try to be reliable, try to really be trustable, try to be the advocate for the customer, fight hard internally to get your customers what they need.

And, you know, this is me: no one likes me! I mean, not really, they like me, but I'm fighting really hard for my customers, they really need it, it's important for them, this is their pain point. So, I will fight really hard for my customers - I won't be nice to my customers, but they really appreciate that if I'm saying “no”, they know that I did everything in my power to get it, so if it’s a “no”, it’s a “no”. And if I say “yes”, they also know!

But I'm not trying to be very lovable and Customer Success sometimes misses this point. The customer might still churn: “You know, she's very nice, but we didn't get what we needed.” So Customer Success needs to understand that you can live it: be nice to your family, your friends, but for customers? Make sure that you give them what they need.

Masha

That’s powerful. What is one story that you wanted to tell about Customer Success that we didn’t ask you about?

Gal

In my team meetings, everyone from the team needs to present “the good, the bad, and the ugly”: they need to tell a story about a good thing that happened with a customer, bad thing, ugly thing. Sometimes it’s funny, sometimes sad.

One of the things that I've learned during my career is that the most difficult customers, they destroy you, but they teach you a lot. I used to have customers that would curse on calls, like “Your product sucks! You are a bunch of morons! You don't know what you're doing!” I had this type of customer, and you feel so bad. 

I had a customer that every time I used to deliver a document to them, if a comma was missing he used to send it back. He was from Germany and he used to torture me, I mean it was a nightmare! One day, the two of us were in a room and I was terrified, but I thought I have to ask him. So, I looked at him and said: “I need to ask you: is it only with me, or this is the way that you behave in general?” and he said “I'm German, this is how we work. We are very strict, we are very process-oriented, we want things to be very organized, and I’m sorry - you are not!” It has been 10 years since I left that position, and he left his position, and we are very good friends: we exchange emails all the time, if he interviews for a job that I might be a good fit for, he sends me these opportunities. We share all the personal things that are going on in our lives: we are very good friends! This person changed me: the way that I work, and pay attention to detail, make sure that I’m listening to customers’ wants and needs.

So really, customers can destroy you, but they can build you and you should listen to them, and you should learn from them. Don't come from this very arrogant position: just listen, it’s really important.