Helping your clients succeed requires X-ray vision of what’s ahead, as Glenn Wilensky, VP of Customer Success at Resilinc knows: be the steady sidekick, not the scrambling superhero.
For me, Customer Success means that my customer, they're allowing my team to be part of their team. If they're allowing that, it means they're invested in using my software, they're seeing the value added, because if they're not seeing the value, I don't want to monitor this customer. Because it's not good for the relationship. To me, that's success.
With a background in Operations across a variety of tech companies, Glenn hits on what delivering success looks like:
1. Power in hand means your team can move lightning-quick:
"I think the best structure has to be a top of mind organization. If you've got a Chief Operating Officer—[Customer Success] needs to report there, or to somebody at my [VP] level. That's where it should be on the Operations side. Customer Success has to work hand in hand, though, with the entire organization. It has to have the authority. Without the authority to make decisions about the customer—you're never going to react fast enough. You do need to be, we won't call it the superhero, but you do need to be the sidekick."
2. Deep industry knowledge allows your practice to be the best practice:
"A Customer Success Manager, to be really strong, has to be an expert in the industry that they're working in. That's what brings value to a customer. I want my customers to not want to leave us, not necessarily because of the product we've got. I mean, obviously, that's a big piece, but I want them to be afraid they're going to lose, you know, Jane. Because Jane is an industry leader for them. Our Customer Success Managers bring knowledge."
Customer Success Managers have to be an integral piece of the company's DNA. And they have to be industry experts who spend time with their customers.
"So, if the CSM sees something at one company that is really brilliant, not confidential, but brilliant, they'll bring that to the next customer next time and say, “Have you thought about doing something like this? This is what we're seeing as an industry best practice.” For example, the automotive industry, the CSM has to know the automotive industry. Where if they had one healthcare customer, one automotive customer, one life sciences customer, the in-depth knowledge cannot be there."
3. Visibility is crucial to maintaining meaningful customer connections:
"For instance, I want to go talk to a customer. Another key difference is I talk to customers all the time. And my CEO, she talks to customers. That's part of our methodologies. We're calling weekly, sometimes, with customers; monthly, quarterly—at least quarterly. And we're talking with all our customers. And what do you do if you don't have visibility of what's going on? If I don't have one place to go look, "Okay, you know, has this customer had issues? Are they paying their bills?" Right? "What are the conversations they're having with my team?" I don't know that. I could stick my foot in my mouth. Or totally miss the boat on what needs to be said.”
“I don't want to have to now go call five different people or send a bunch of emails, “Hey, what's going on here?” When I say visibility, that's what I mean.”
Big thanks to Glenn for sitting down with us to spell out success!
Masha
Thank you so much for taking the time, Glenn. It's great to meet you. For our context, what are you up to? What's your role? What's your background? I mean, I've been able to creep you as much as I could on LinkedIn. And it sounds like the Resilinc gig is a new one for you.
Glenn
Yeah, Resilinc is a new gig for me. My background is in technology. In the software space. Telecom, contact centers, emergency management, healthcare and now with supply chain resilience. All different markets. But I've always been on the Operation side. I say that.. actually, I've been in the Sales side, too. [Laughs] I've gravitated towards the Operations side. I'm not normally a quota bearing person. There are some people who love being under the pressure of, “I've got a quota, I'm gonna go make it.” And do that. I'm the type where I'm going to get things done. I want to make changes. I don't want to feel like I've got to do things to make a quota to make money. So I've been running Operations, like professional services. Of which there's a lot of people who use different terms for that. For some people professional services is strictly consulting. For others it's implementation, training, integration work, and consulting. And that's really where I have been. Along with tech support, I started my days doing Tech Support work. So Tech Support, Customer Success, that all blends together.
Masha
Okay, cool. And how big is the Customer Success team at Resilinc now?
Glenn
I've got about 40 something people.
Masha
Wow.
Glenn
So it’s small.
Masha
I wouldn't say it's small. [Laughs]
Glenn
I've been in organizations that have had several hundred.
Masha
Wow.
Glenn
So, this is a smaller, more of a startup type of organization. Which is fun. Because it's allowing me to impart the things I've learned over the years to create a growth opportunity for a corporation. That's what we're doing. We're a hyper growth company. And it's really putting those best practices in place that are necessary. Not ones just because you want to write everything down and have all this process. That's where large organizations are death by process. Small organizations have no process, there's a balance.
Masha
Yeah, where's that middle?
Glenn
And that's what I work on. How you put that balance in so that you can really scale an organization. And have the right places to have that process. But what I've found in every size organization is visibility is the key. If you don't have insight into your customers.. what's going around and going on—and a 360 type of insight.. it makes it difficult to really focus on Customer Success.
Masha
Let's come back to that. I'd love to dig in a little bit more. Just a couple more preliminary bits... as maybe this is the first controversial question. How are you currently organized at Resilinc? How does the reporting structure work? And who reports to you?
Glenn
I report to the CEO.
Masha
Okay, so a separate function?
Glenn
Yeah, I'm part of the Executive team for the company, basically. I have a Senior Director and Vice President who report to me in different areas. And then we have different functions underneath there. So basically, for me, Customer Success is in the strict organizational sense. I have a team of Customer Success managers. I have some Customer Advocates, which is a less senior level than a Customer Success Manager. The way we do Customer Success is different than any other company I've ever been with. And probably different than most companies out there. My Customer Success Managers are usually talking to our customers twice a week at least. So, they are an adjunct of our customer's team in the supply chain. They're driving adoption and we do consulting without charging for consulting. It's the way we do business. We take our customers from a level on what we call the supply chain maturity model. We take them from one place to the other, and we help map that for them. Some customers we've been with for 10 years. The same Customer Success Manager has been working with them weekly. We don’t call up at the end of the month saying, “Hey, how you doing, do you need to buy anything?” Our Success Managers are not responsible for upsells, that's not their goal.
Masha
Interesting.
Glenn
Their goal is to drive adoption. They may find opportunities. I have a separate sales team that sells renewals and upsells. They're engaged to do that. So that's under my organization, also. Separate from our sales organization, which focuses on new business.
Masha
New business, right.
Glenn
I have Tech Support. I have an Implementation Practice. That's Project Managers, Implementation Consultants. I have something called Partner Relations. This is where at Resilinc what we do is a little bit different than then a normal business. I have a customer. ABC Company is my customer, a large manufacturer or large company, we map their supply chain. And so they may have 1000 suppliers or 10,000 suppliers. I have a team that supports those suppliers, because those suppliers now have access to our system. And we have to train them how to use it. We have to help them because they're putting information in for their customer. So I have a separate team that focuses on that. That's the normal Customer Success. Obviously, being a small company, we have other jobs that we do. I actually handle the contracting and initial legal reviews.
Masha
For contracting.
Glenn
Contracts and NDAs. Just because my background in doing this lends to it.
Masha
Very cool. Question for you, Glenn. I love asking this one, but some people get stumped by it. So I've been hearing a lot from Customer Success folks that they love at the end of the day to feel like superheroes. Saving the day for their customers and making sure that they're successful. If I were to ask you what your Customer Success related superpower would be, what would you say?
Glenn
So the interesting thing is my superpower is probably foresight. I don't want to be a superhero to my customers. That is not my goal for Customer Success. We are there so that they don't need the superhero moments. That's what we want to be. We don't want to come in, helicopter in, save the day and leave. My team's on the ground with my customers continuously. So those types of situations don't happen.
Masha
I love that. That's a very resilient supply chain. For your context, I used to be at Kinaxis and we used to talk a lot about that. [Laughs] So I hear you.
Glenn
I have a different mentality on it. Right?
Masha
I love that.
Glenn
We don't want to be superheroes.
Masha
That's great. In your mind, what does Customer Success actually mean? Because it does seem it's kind of like the word “blue” right now. [Laughs] How do you know that it's working?
Glenn
There's the obvious metrics. Are my customers buying more? And are they renewing? And that's your obvious metrics. Some customers are locked in and they renew, even if they don't like you. So is it customer loyalty? Or is it lock-in? Right? So you have to understand that. For me, Customer Success means that my customer, they're allowing my team to be part of their team. If they're allowing that, it means they're invested in using my software. They're seeing the value added. Because if they're not seeing the value, I don't want to monitor this customer. Because it's not good for the relationship. To me, that's success. They're allowing me to work with them. My team is tied in with them. We know what their operations are. We know what their mission is. And we know how to move them from one point to another.
Masha
I love that. That's a great way to put it. To go back to the way you were describing sort of your current organizational setup before.. what in your mind is the best way to set up Customer Success teams organizationally, and what is the worst?
Glenn
Ah, the worst is putting them under Sales.
Masha
Yes! I have heard this.
Glenn
Because when under Sales, their motivations are different. I work with a lot of software companies who we buy from. And yeah, I know where their Customer Success teams lie, because of the questions they're asking.
Masha
So say more on that, like what kinds of questions are the dead giveaways?
Glenn
Is all they want to do is find out.. do I want to buy more? If that's all they're driven for—I get a call once a quarter from them, “Hey, we're checking in, do you need any more licenses?” You know, that type of thing? It's like, that's not Customer Success, guys. That is why I think those types are the worst organizations. "I think the best structure has to be a top of mind organization. If you've got a Chief Operating Officer—[Customer Success] needs to report there, or to somebody at my [VP] level. That's where it should be on the Operations side. Customer Success has to work hand in hand, though, with the entire organization. It has to have the authority. Without the authority to make decisions about the customer—you're never going to react fast enough. You do need to be, we won't call it the superhero, but you do need to be the sidekick."
Masha
Yeah. I love that. [Laughs] Might steal that. Considering you've seen a broad spectrum of organizations and industries—how’ve the Success roles specifically evolved over the last couple years?
Glenn
Even at Resilinc, when I came in, there was one thought. I evolved it based on my background, and what I've seen works. A Customer Success Manager, to be really strong, has to be an expert in the industry that they're working in. Because that's what brings value to a customer. I want my customers to not want to leave me, not necessarily because of the product I do. I mean, obviously, that's a big piece, but I want them to be afraid they're gonna lose, you know, Jane. Because Jane is an industry leader for them. Right? Because my Customer Success Managers bring knowledge. Mine are segmented vertically, I've seen them done all different ways. But try to segment them vertically so they handle a group of customers in a vertical. So now if they see something at one company that is really brilliant, not confidential, but brilliant, they'll bring that to the next time you say, “Have you thought about doing something like this? This is what we're seeing as an industry best practice,” Say the automotive industry, they know the automotive industry, they can do that. Where if they had one healthcare customer, one automotive customer, one life sciences customer, you really can't do that.
Masha
Makes sense. And then I guess, if you had a crystal ball, how do you see it changing in the next five years? Let's not go too far. But the next five years. What do you see coming?
Glenn
You know, if I could predict that—
Masha
You said foresight! I'm just saying! [Laughs]
Glenn
I know. I know. I really think it's gonna depend on industry. The commodity based software companies are going to still be sell, sell, sell. And it's going to be that Customer Success is a necessity, not a part of the ingrained methodology to the company. And that won't change. The companies that truly believe in customer intimacy.. working with customers, are going to move more to the model that we're doing, frankly. It's a more expensive model. I mean, that's the thing. So if you're bottom line driven on your EBITDA, it's harder to sell this model, because it looks like it costs more. But it doesn't necessarily cost more because I can drive more value out of my customers. Goes way back, right? It's much easier and much cheaper to keep a customer than it is to buy a new customer.
Masha
Again, maybe another controversial question. Is value different from revenue, Glenn?
Glenn
Value is tremendously different from revenue.
Masha
And that's why you don't see it showing up—
Glenn
Revenue is a piece of it. But some of it is time to revenue. So it's not only revenue, but time to revenue. You've got to look at the cost side. What's the cost, right? So cost of goods, you look at sales expenses alone on selling a new deal versus keeping one. It's cost avoidance.
Masha
Totally. I'd love to go back to something you said previously, where visibility is key. Is that your sort of supply chain brain talking?
Glenn
Yeah, that was before I got into the supply chain.
Masha
Okay. Can you say more on that? What does that mean to you?
Glenn
For instance, I want to go talk to a customer. Another key difference is I talk to customers all the time. And my CEO, she talks to customers. That's part of our methodology. We're calling weekly, sometimes with customers, monthly, quarterly, at least quarterly. And we're talking with all our customers. And what we do, is if you don't have visibility of what's going on? If I don't have one place to go look at okay, you know, has this customer had issues? Are they paying their bills? Right? What are the conversations they're having with my team? I don't know that. I could stick my foot in my mouth. Or totally missed the boat on what needs to be said. And I don't want to—okay, I'm setting up a call with you. I don't want to have to now go call five different people or send a bunch of emails, “Hey, what's going on here?” When I say visibility, that's what I mean by visibility..
Masha
So how do you achieve that? That seems elusive. How do you achieve that today?
Glenn
You know, there are companies out there who sell software who claim to do it.
Masha
Never heard of it. [Laughs]
Glenn
I'm not gonna name names. I'm not using those companies. I have in the past. But now I'm not. I'm using a different company I found. Something that was not necessarily focused on this market, but allows me the flexibility and ability to do it. I'm one of those people, as I look at what are the minimum requirements? I don't need every bell and whistle, because every bell and whistle is never used. As we all know, we use 20% of the software we buy. We don't use the entire thing. So I need to have that 20%. And I need that 20% to be easy to use. Because if it's not easy to use, it doesn't matter how great the software is, it's going to go away.
In fact, when I joined Resilinc, they had a Customer Success software tool that they just done away with. One of the industry leaders. And the reason they did away with it.. it wasn't easy to use, it wasn't integrated. There was no planning on it. You have to plan this. One of the things I've done in that extra role, I looked at our entire architecture and infrastructure. And said, how do I architect something that can be usable? Is it one piece of software? Is it multiple pieces of software? Do I want best in class? Do I want the minimum? How do I build an architecture such that I have a hub system that the data comes to and then I have adjunct pieces. So I have a separate support system for my CRM. I have a separate Customer Success and Implementation tool. Again, it's not only Customer Success, it's also a PSA—professional service automation tool. All in one that I've used that ties into that CRM system. So everything's flowing there. Financial system ties in. All the data is in the right places where it needs to be.
Masha
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. We only have about four minutes left. I want to ask you.. what is the most controversial opinion that you hold about Customer Success that you wish other folks would just like, hurry up and catch up to already?
Glenn
Oh, controversial? I don't know if there's anything controversial. My philosophy on it, is that the Customer Success Managers have to be an integral piece of the company's DNA. And they have to be industry experts who spend time with their customers. They can't just be a salesperson in disguise and call them Customer Success Manager.
Masha
I love that. Thank you.
